Sean O'Malley's Issues with Managers | Punk's Opinion #32

there’s no Big John again today because he’s out there working on the farm but we’re going to give you a little special uh edition of the Punk’s opinion you
know Sean O’Malley had came out podcast Dave podcast saved my little psychic here my buddy here we’ve been doing
dirty for a while now buddy what’s it been like seven years now we’ve been doing this together six years six years man it’s been a long
time yeah man you’re a filthy little animal to stick with me this long oh geez look uh you know look Big John’s
out on the farm we’re gonna drop you a little quick punks opinion I saw something that came up with Sean O’Malley over the management stuff and
I’ve had one manager my whole career but I’ve also seen the generations and the flips of managers as it’s come through
so you know you in the beginning there was guys like Monty Cox who managed all the military guys then you had Bob cook
who managed all the the AKA guys and there was other managers along the way that managed like the scrap pack and and
other you know another uh and then Uriah came along shortly after you know like there was there was a management that
had changed or developed and opened up and Jim started having their own management things those type of things
had started coming about but I wanted just to kind of touch on some of the stuff that he had said at the presser
and uh it made perfect sense but I also want to make sure that everyone understood management has changed so
much from the time that I was fighting and it’s been a long long time guys a long
long time I mean Bob cook was my manager started being my manager back in 1999. you know like kind of the end of 98 99
right when I started right when I moved over towards um towards to Calif back to California from
Coeur d’Alene Idaho so um just wanted to give you a take and then now the management has changed a
lot more lawyers are involved a lot more um like Heavy Hitters are more involved you have some some managers or some
Fighters are are uh managed by like um Audi atar some are managed by CAA
summer managed by um you know other other top level uh management companies and so I just
wanted to I just wanted to touch base on what he said but Dave’s going to play the clip for what he said and then I’m
gonna touch a little bit on it this one won’t be as long obviously as the one that we did uh just in the past couple
weeks if you haven’t seen it we did it what two weeks ago week and a half ago two weeks ago yeah so if you guys haven’t checked that one out go check it
out and uh check it uh it was it was a good little one it was about 35 minutes this one won’t be as long at least I
don’t think it will uh there’s not as much to really to talk about but you know Dave will I’m sure pop in some questions because Dave has no idea how
the sport goes so he actually he actually relates to a lot of you know 99 of the fans out there that have no idea
what really goes on so they just sit from their couch and tell you I could have done it better so that’s it that’s podcast Dave but um look let’s go ahead
and play that part uh with Sean O’Malley and we’ll go go through and I’ll have you stop it at moments of it to talk about it go ahead yep so he’s trying to
Molly media day this week and leading up to the UFC tuning into I’ll play this club for you here we go I’d say make
sure when you get these managers contracts you guys read them and look through them have a lawyer look through
them don’t just sign just because these guys say I can get you in the UFC they’re taking 20 of your purse they’re
taking your win bonus they’re taking your fight bonus performance bonus I I would be very very skeptical on signing
their contracts you could sign with a manager but make sure you have okay so okay so now I know things have changed
um look I had signed 20 to my to my management but my management also paid my trainers so 20 was 10 to my trainers
10 to my to my management now I am under the understanding now with some of the
managers that I know in the in the in the MMA industry now it’s 20 to them and
then the fighters pay the managers uh the fighters pay the their trainers separately that’s not how I did it
that’s not how the guys at the majority of the guys at AKA from what I understand did it no they were working
with the zenkins and so it was a 10 to management and then a 10 to the trainers
because it was a kind of a conglomerate of the two that had joined together with Javier Mendez Bob cook and Dwayne zinken
they had joined together and the gym was all fighters inside that gym at the time were managed by uh Bob cook and Dwayne
zinken now I know that other managements don’t do that now you do have to understand
that there can be conversations with with the manager like if you don’t if you don’t
want to if when you when you bring a manager on you’re you’re vetting them they work for
you it’s not the other way around for some reason people believe that like oh this guy can do this for me that they’re
doing me a favor no they’re doing their job and that’s I think where uh sugar shot
very smart when I was listening to him talk about this he had wrapped his head around all of
the things that Fighters need to start to understand when he said read the contract read the contract if you don’t
know what it means man Google like figure it out like those are things like you’re signing your your
not your life away but you’re signing a big portion of your finances away to a
manager and you’re allowing them to control your destiny in not just in the sport but like in terms of marketability
and so you’ve got to be very cautious um with who you sign with vet them talk
to them you know get and there’s going to be a lot of things I’m gonna say about some of the stuff but I think this is one of those things where
you need to make sure that for me I think 20 is too much for just for management okay
um now if there’s also another side deal that they can get you you can do management is for them negotiating the
contract and then uh sponsors is another deal but then since there is no sponsors you know in the um in the UFC in terms
of in the cage whatever Deals they can get you outside of the cage they can get a percentage of but that is a separate
negotiated deal and that should also be based on what the dollar amount is I mean I do remember there was I’ve had
several sponsors this is back then so the money I think is a little bit better now um over time it generally tends to get
better uh but I mean I had sponsors that were paying me 25 Grand just to wear the shorts Inside the Cage you know and that
was it 25 Grand just to wear the shorts not a shirt not not no I didn’t have we didn’t have banners back then just to
wear the shorts and so those are deals that you can negotiate separately
um that deal for me as well was 10 they got 10 of the sponsor and then they got and then they got 10 of my contract uh
for the fights that they negotiated so they negotiated a four fight deal or six five deal they got that 10 for the six
fights and my trainers got the other 10 so then realistic I was only losing the
20 total not 20 to the manager and then another percentage to the trainers so
then you’re losing anywhere between 30 to 40 percent just to the trainers and just to the management that’s ridiculous
now that last part that he had talked about was with the was within in regards to the bonuses
your manager I don’t and I’ve said this before your manager shouldn’t get [ __ ]
for performance bonuses a big fat goose egg that’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever
heard your management doesn’t negotiate the fifty thousand dollars uh by your
performance they don’t they don’t go they didn’t negotiate that deal okay that is something that Dana gives out
for your performance not for your manager’s performance in the contract negotiations your manager shouldn’t get
[ __ ] nothing none of it he shouldn’t get any of that whether it’s that but I don’t
even know about other bonuses back room bonuses any of that [ __ ] it shouldn’t get any of that none of it you should be
collecting his job was to negotiate the contract for you in the UFC he did that
and he does he did it based on the fights so he if you signed a three fight deal four fight deal six five deal
whatever it is he gets his 10 or 20 or whatever so I’ve heard some managers up to 30 which is
just ridiculous in terms of what you guys actually make and you’re giving away 30 percent adjust to the manager
not I doubt that’s even to the trainers for some of them I’ve heard it’s not to the chase just the managers 30 if your
manager is taking 30 percent there’s got to be some sort of something else going on are you getting
30 and you’re bringing me five or six other responses that are making me another hundred thousand dollars I don’t
even know but I’m simply saying you should never be paying 30 for the contracted fights that you’ve negotiated
okay in in terms of the bonuses none you don’t get any of that you weren’t in
there fighting you didn’t go out there and fight your ass off you didn’t go out there and get fight of the night you didn’t go out there and get submission of the night you didn’t go out there and
get knocked out on the night you didn’t get any of those things I did you know and I did it in my training with my
trainers now if you want to give your trainers a percentage of that I I would highly
recommend it I suggest you do your trainers helped you get to that level of having those performances I think if
anyone deserves anything from that it’d be your trainers they get a little bonus because hey we did it together and and
to believe that you you did it by yourself in terms of uh it’s just not true in terms of The Knockout the
submission or the performance and the push the cardio all of those things whatever got you paid if you want to
give your coaches some of that I would highly suggest it man that that’s what keeps your and sad that that’s what
money keeps family together and uh it’s it can it can break you up too but in
this position I think this is one of those things so let them know you appreciate them without always just having to tell them you appreciate them
let them know and I was I would suggest giving them a little bit of a bonus on that if you have any questions before we
move on on that Dave nope not in that part okay go ahead let’s go ahead and carry it on here we
go contracts you could sign with a manager but make sure you have stuff in there you know it’s fair to you because
none of none of these contracts are fair to the fighters and these managers know that these Fighters aren’t going to read it or Fighters for a reason so I would
be very I would sound very very careful with you know these guys that are really close to the UFC you know I just want to
go off that you’ve obviously made a statement recently that MMA managers are no good and you’re going to prove that has a specific incident happened that
makes you want to pick up this course um no there’s been a couple instances more recent yeah okay stop here
now I’m not fully on board with the MMA managers are no good um I think there are there are reasons
to have an MMA manager and um I can give a couple examples I don’t want to throw any names out but I do know some
Fighters and they’re people that are close to me so I don’t want to throw that out too much is that they thought they had they had actually
almost two managers working for them they went behind closed doors and Dana had sat them down and in bullshitting
with them thought they were doing them a fake you know like basically like hey I can do this for you I can do this for you and at the end of the day they
signed a contract um with the UFC and they sidestep the
manager and at the end of the day they’re like oh yeah but then I don’t have to pay the management fee yeah but you also got less
you got less than certain certain areas and what I mean by what you get paid
doesn’t always reflect who you’re gonna fight so it’s certain parts in your
career as you step up in competition you want to get paid more but if if you’re fighting let’s say you’re fighting in
the 135 pound division you need to take as much money as you can in your second contract your first
contract they’ll give you like you know you’re going to be fighting the low-level guy not low level guys but guys that are just coming in the UFC uh
same thing goes for Bellator if you’re in fighting 135 pound Division and you’re fighting that first round of of
competition is going to be kind of the the the guys that are just coming in
okay like uh Brett Jones had fought um had fought Danny sabatello thinking that
okay look my first fight in Danny took the fight on short notice I should be able to get this win didn’t get that win in certain weight classes these guys
they’re the guys that are right that are not ranked in the top 15 they’re [ __ ] killers
there’s tons of them out there they’re not even in the UFC they’re not even in Bellator they’re not even one or or pfl
there’s guys out there at 135 pounds because it’s the most stacked division in in the sport right now 145 is also
very stacked 155 is of course always stacked those three weight classes right there
they’ve always got some of the best fighters in the world that are not even in these big promotions so your first
contract I understand is to get you in contract it’s like that rookie contract I look at things like a rookie contract
your first one you do your three four fights under a rookie contract but after that if you’re in one of those weight
classes you need to try to get as much money as you can because no matter who you fight they’re all tough they’re all
tough now when you get into this you know even I would even say even to the 70 pounds it’s kind of in that way it’s
kind of tapering off a little bit guys in the top 15 guys outside the top 15 guys that are not in the in the UFC
there’s still some tough ones out there but there’s not a lot of them out there you can kind of understand the name recognition and this and that but when
you get to 85 205 and then up into the heavyweight there’s only a handful I’d say maybe like you know you got eight
you know eight to ten in the UFC or maybe a little bit more that are top 15 that are the some of the best guys in the world and then you’ve got you know
six to eight whatever in the UFC or in Bellator that are some of the best guys in the world you know maybe five to five
to seven best guys in the world other promotions but those weight classes are generally a little bit
um they’re not as deep and so when you’re having these negotiations your first contract is your rookie contract
if you’re in the lower weight classes I suggest you go ahead and and you start asking for a significant amount of money
or a little bit more of an increase if you’ve had good performances you go ahead and do that because no matter who you fight it’s going to be tough fights
why would you want to fight somebody um for let’s just give an example look
at your rookie contract in the UFC is like 10 and 10. so those are guys you’re gonna fight for four fights three fights
four fights but then you get into the next contract at 135 pounds now I’m going to be looking to get in that next
contract they’re gonna look to try to get me in the top 15. they’re all killers they’re all killers so who so why would
I not try to get as much money as I possibly could for that contract and those managers need to understand and if
your manager doesn’t understand that then you need to find yourself a new manager because a lot of how they
negotiate the deal has to do with who you are how you perform what weight class you’re in who are the likely
people that you may potentially be fighting in that top 15 that top 10 that top you know that top uh level of
fighters in your weight class because that will that will directly reflect how much
money your manager should be asking look if I get to 135 pounds can you pull up 135 can I see it at all there Dave you
won’t be able to see it okay so if I was to pull up 135 I mean who who are the can you just rate them off to me yeah so
who are the best guys in 135 in the UFC okay so you got a number one marab yep
Sean Henry Sun Hagen pyrion uh Chio Rob
font songidong Dominic okay so stop it Chito so Chito is kind of you know what’s he six
she always six yep yeah so that’s to get to six now look let’s go okay we go beyond that it’s Rob font
Sonya dong who’s behind those guys Don Cruz uh Pedro Munoz Mr
Ricky Simon Jonathan Martinez Adrian yarnes and Chris katitas okay so you
have some really good guys in that in that when I that’s in the top 15. so I need to start asking if I’m a guy
after I’ve got through my rookie contract your manager should be trying to get you the most amount of money in those areas now you get can you look at
the 185 pounds yep let’s read off the 185 how far yep at one rickus at two uh what a car
canonier bitore Strickland Brunson
Roman delete Jaco Manson Brendan Allen okay so who was six was
um Brunson okay who’s Brunson Bronson seven seven yeah okay and then uh Delete
is a [ __ ] killer he’s another guy he’s just a killer I think brunson’s kind of starting to fall off a little
bit and he’s getting a little bit older it’s just harder for him to get in shape into wrestle and utilize what his big
tool is for him so those are the things it starts to fall off at around six and
seven whereas in the 35 pound it it’s get those guys are still relatively young but they’re coming up they’re
they’re making a March towards the top five whereas in in the uh in the 185 pound division a couple guys are making
their March like deletes he’s gonna make his March into that top five top you know three or four probably here pretty soon but he but the other guys are kind
of some of them like Brunson is kind of starting to fall off a little bit some of the guys are falling off your manager should be negotiating the most amount of
money for you in that hundred thirty five hundred forty five hundred fifty five maybe you up into the 170 pound division in your second contract because
all those Fighters are killers at that point let’s go ahead and roll some of them more what he was saying
all right here we go being careful with these guys they’re not they’re not good at their jobs they you know they’ll
manipulate you do you think it’s a problem that it’s like a low barrier to entry anyone can be an MMA manager so
they’re just not necessarily skilled in the workplace or is it that a lot of these guys through their job have just
become too close to the promotion and as such cannot represent the fighter as effectively as possible a little bit of both you know you meet scumbags
he is right you can meet scumbags in both okay they can be everywhere okay but let’s go with what he was talking
about and is the whoever the person was asking the
question the reporter or the analyst or whoever he was the media when he asked the question he he brought up a good
point he brought up a good he was a it was a great question have these managers gotten too close to the promotion if you
are a fighter and your manager is
If your manager is too friendly with whether it’s Dana whether it’s you know
the matchmakers whether it’s people within the UFC it’s I’m not really sure it’s somebody
you would really want to have as your manager because you have to wonder as it as the way the shift that has changed
back when I was fighting Bob cook he never hung out with Dana he never hung
out with Joe Silva he never hung out with Sean Shelby like you know sure they would meet and talk contracts
but they weren’t they weren’t hanging out on Planes together they weren’t hanging out and gambling together they
weren’t you know hanging out at their houses together I would be skeptical of any manager hanging out
and doing these things and now look some Fighters are like oh well he’s in with them he’s in with Dana he’s in with you
know the matchmakers he’s been with you know it could be it could be bellator’s guys as well could be like okay
um but those are the ones those managers are like hey when their selling point to you is
when they’re selling point to you is that I’m friends with Dana I hang out with him I gamble with him um I have dinner
with him I go to his house um I fly places with him you’ve got to be skeptical of those managers because
now some of those managers only have four or five Fighters so then that makes it a little bit more I don’t say
different it makes it’s a different scenario but when your manager has you know 60 70 80 Fighters and are they are
they leveraging you to get some of their younger guys on that’s one two is are they cutting you
are they not giving you the best offered contract because they want to get four or five of their other guys on whether
it’s Dana White’s consenter series whether it’s the what’s the one that does with Matt Sarah uh Dana White’s
looking forward for a fight all of these things I don’t know if that show is still around but all that stuff you know
what I mean like um is it the ultimate fighter is that something you’re looking for are you
impressed and that’s things some of these managers will reach out to be like yeah I’m like uh Fighters will say I’m
impressed because he’s my my manager of the guys vet that
I’m vetting is out there hanging out with Dana he’s out there hanging out with you know the promoter out there hanging out with the matchmakers those
are not things that you should be you shouldn’t be happy about that you should be thinking to yourself why
like I need I can’t have you you guys can’t be friends and still negotiate and
get me the best deal it just it doesn’t doesn’t work that way as much as we would like to imagine in a
world in a fairy tale world it doesn’t work that way the managers
and um promoters and matchmakers are people that do the contracts for these
the organizations they shouldn’t be friends your manager should be okay look this is business okay not sure I can say
hi we can you know we we shouldn’t be hanging out though like I should be handling this in terms of like I need to
make sure that my contract or my fighter is being taken care of and that’s it that’s what you should be looking for in
a manager and Sean and Sean he’s seen this and he he’s obviously speaking from experience If your manager or someone you’re
talking about signing with is like yeah I hang out with with the promoter yeah I hang out with the matchmakers yeah I hang out you know
and I’m there at all these Vents and you know and they and they’re putting me up and they’re doing this that doesn’t do
anything for you that doesn’t do anything for you and so those were things that I think Fighters
need to need to understand you need to find somebody that is a little bit different
um away from away from that now not all managers are bad that’s the thing not all of them are bad
um I think I think there’s a lot of great managers out there and you’ve just got to find the one that fits best with
your needs like I always wanted somebody who wasn’t close with whatever promotion because when you do decide to pull that
trigger like I left from one promotion to the next when the UFC got rid of the 155 pound Division I went to I went and
fought in Pride when I fought in Pride that had to be I had to get a different manager for that because you have to have different negotiations for the job
to to negotiate with the Japanese at that time and so I went out and got a different manager to handle that side
and then but I still stayed with Bob for the US stuff it’s fought over and pride came back when Strikeforce happened I
utilized Bob to negotiate with Scott Coker and my relationship with Scott cooker sure I’m extremely close with him
but during my fighting career it was a it was a business there was plenty of times where Coker would call and yell
directly at me on things that I said in the media but then and I was fine with that and there was things that you know
he would relate through Bob to me as well and those are things like you want to make sure you have that separation
because if things do go sour or they go south or whatever it is that that you
can you can separate those things you can’t have a close close friendship with them
at that time when you’re trying to be a fighter because there’s just too many things that you’ll fall victim to oh I
can do this for you I can do that for you and you’ll start to bend a little bit because it is the UFC or because it
is the Bellator because it is one because it is a big promotion and you’ve got to be very cautious and careful
about that go ahead and let’s try to finish up with the Sean thing yeah it’s just 10 seconds bro and you could have broke scumbag friends you could have a
lot of money and then those Rich there’s you know there’s high level scumbags out there and uh you know they’re good at
they’re they’re good at being scumbag they’re good at that yeah that’s your clip yeah yeah no I get
it he’s um but he is right like some some people will go ahead and take advantage of manage some managers will
take advantage of you know hanging out with uh the promoters hanging out with the matchmakers doing all these things
so if you’re a young fighter to recap on the whole thing is
your percentage is up to you negotiate don’t think like hey this is their set percent uh set percentage no it’s not
it’s everything is negotiable I’m signing you to work for me negotiate that I don’t give a [ __ ] don’t get it
caught up also in this number that it has to be 20 no it can be 15 percent
okay now maybe it’s harder to do the math for some of you but guess what that extra five percent goes a long way
and so start start thinking about that it doesn’t have to be 20. everyone’s like oh 10 20 30. why are we rounding up
that’s one thing in terms of bonuses I think your trainers should get the bonuses on the on the performance bonus
submission bonus knockout bonus whatever it is if you want to tip your you know or you get not tip but if you want to
give them a percentage of your trainers or percentage of that yes management I don’t believe should get it management
should be getting you sponsors outside of outside of the cage or in the cage if you’re allowed to have sponsors in the
cage they get a percentage of that your trainers don’t get a percentage of that
your TR your coaches and stuff don’t get a percentage of your of your sponsors so now that’s where you divide the line
like look you get me sponsors I give you a percentage of that to your management okay my coaches got me to the level of
knockout submission performance of the night I’m gonna give them a percentage of that these are all things that are negotiable
you need to sit down with whoever’s trying to sign you and if this if one of the things that comes out of the manager’s mouth is I’m good friends with
the promoter and I hang out with him at his house or I hang out with him on his plane or I hang out with him in in Cabo
Mexico Florida wherever it is okay whether it’s the promoter whether it’s the matchmakers you guys have got to
stay clear and he’s he’s obviously speaking from experience foreign
this is happening but I’m saying though is that remember how nc2a was the
college coaches were paying the parents to have these kids come to their college
it’s you’re starting to lean a little bit more towards are these managers paying to get their fighters in
and I I’m like I said I’m not I’m not saying they are but it’s gotten to the point where you you’ve gotta
you’ve gotta like with Sean he sounds like he’s got something in the back pocket which some people
um have reached out to me and have talked to me about it and stuff and he does have something in his back pocket and like he said he’ll release it when
the time is right but at the end of the day like are are the managers
will managers will start I think coming this is one of the negatives of Bellator going away when I look at Bellator does
go away I don’t I don’t I’m not 100 in I just saw a report the other day on uh
on BET was doing a deal with Paramount and the whole deal they got down to it
they came in with such a low ball offer that they shut the whole deal down they’ve been negotiating for a long time
and so to think that like the pfl deal or any other people that are in this
negotiation with Bellator there’s a lot that needs to happen for us to sit up here and for us for me to sit up here
and speculate it just it can’t happen like no there’s these deals don’t these deals just don’t happen overnight
that’s one two is that the little tiny nuances of it all like just the little tiny things who I want you to pay for
this I want you to pay for that no and some of them are um deal breakers for whether it’s one
side or the other side and so um look at the end of the day everyone will just we’ll just have to wait and
see on how that all happens but to say that this deal is gonna um happen I mean like I wouldn’t be convinced until the
end of the day but this is the reason why Bellator is or this is the reason why it going away creates more of a
leverage for managers or not managers but promotions whether the UFC to start
to leverage the managers against their Fighters and so Sean doing what Sean’s doing I
think he’s he’s taking steps to to secure his best interest whereas if bellatource goes away and you
have pfl and you have one those are the two major of the other two major promotions now that the UFC understands that they
can start leveraging a lot more these managers are going like hey man your guy’s gonna have to take less you want these guys to get paid more you
want more promotions Joe Joe Rogan has said it Jimmy Smith has said it other
people that have been involved like myself and Big John has said it as well is all of us that want the fighters to
make more money the way for them to make more money is have more options you wanna it’s it’s really comes down to
making sure that I can leverage this promotion against this promotion and I talked to managers this week and I legit
just said why are we why are not why are Fighters not leaving
the UFC when they got a little bit of a name they leave they go to another promotion if all these other promotions
are not Superior which I think they’re all they’re all equally as good in terms
of like you have top three or top five Fighters five six they can all compete with each other why don’t they just go
to another promotion like how Anthony Johnson did because Anthony didn’t even become their Champion but he had great knockouts over there and then come back
and make double the amount of money he was making maybe even triple the amount of money because I had worked with Anthony from the time he came into his
career but on top of that he had asked me to manage him during that time when he was about to leave
um the World Series if I didn’t go back to the UFC and I told him no I just didn’t I did was there was just
no way that I was I felt comfortable managing him walking him into the UFC and having a sit-down conversation with
Joe Silva and having a sit-down conversation with Dana White about Anthony Johnson it just wasn’t a it
wasn’t something that I had put myself into in terms of I didn’t want to put myself in that position I had had to had
conversations with Joe Silva plenty of times while cornering and Anthony not making
the wait and Joe came directly to me because he knew that I was the one that was kind of trying to help him as much
as possible in his direct trajectory of his career and so Joe had came in and just
tore me a new [ __ ] but it was like basically about AJ and uh you know and there was a lot and that was a good
thing about Joe is after Joe cooled down he was easier to talk to but uh you had to let him say what hit what was on his
mind and you were able to have a conversation with Joe Silva thinks Joe Silva is one of the
he he was he was nasty he could be nasty but he was he was a straight shooter he
let you know exactly what was on his mind he did everything uh the right way I believe and so I just look at
these Fighters need to separate their percentage vet their vet
their management separate what their percentage is for bonus bonuses separate their percentage for what sponsors are
and then move forward and see how it goes and look your fight your your management can be fired at any time and
you can hire a new one at any time so don’t forget that now they still get paid for the contract they negotiated
though so if you’re three fights if you are they signed you to a six five deal and you’re only two fights in you still
owe them for those four other fights to pay them out somehow and and they’re gonna get paid
they’re gonna get paid somehow someway hi Dave what do you got I feel like you have uh tudo D two dumb questions but
let’s go um so I’m just gonna take a timestamp real quick so that I know what where I’m
at we’re talking about this but um the question I had was um for you that we haven’t really touched on is is is a is
there such a drastic change in the sport since since having a manager was a big deal you know and then UFC brought in
um you know sponsors that were kind of mandatory sponsors whereas Fighters could not no longer have and UFC is
obviously the biggest promotion and then outside the UFC you can have other sponsors but there’s kind of like um there’s opportunities now to kind of
have a lot of these bigger these bigger sponsors is is that kind of eliminating the need um because one of the things I
saw when the Reebok deal came around was that um you write a favor used to have his own MMA management company and um
and you started seeing people Joseph Benavides was famous for coming out in the media and saying he he basically
left that management company because um he didn’t need it anymore since he didn’t you know he couldn’t he couldn’t get sponsors quote unquote
get sponsors like house outside like far walk into the cage and all that obviously outside of this the uh cage
you can do whatever he wants but you know fight week you have to wear Reebok or Venom now um and then in the cage you
can’t you know you can’t have a banner you can’t have your shorts and all that yeah that might have been because they trained together they were both out of
alpha male and it’s uriah’s gym that you rise like hey if you guys are managing under me I’ll negotiate your management I’ll take a less percentage I would
imagine the percentage in terms of that it was probably like anywhere between 7 to 12 or 15 or 10 whatever it was but he
said look what I will do though is I will get you sponsors so anyone that came to Uriah to sponsor him he probably
turned around and flipped it and tried to sponsor his other guys that’s that’s a good manager he’s trying to utilize
his connections from him being a top level fighter to get his other guys sponsors as well but then when the
Reebok could deal and the Venom deal came in with the Reebok at the time got rid of that
everyone understood that these sponsors they they all fled once Reebok came in
all these sponsors they were already at the time paying the UFC 50 to 100 000
just to even sponsor fighters in the cage they went from when I was fighting it was like they they didn’t have to
worry about it people were just sponsoring the fighters directly and then the UFC went about and said look
all your sponsors need to be uh sent to us and we need to see it we need to see who they are we need to call them we
need to contact them make sure that we have that we have the ability or the rights to use your logo inside the cage
on these Fighters so they started going that way and that turned into okay well
now that you’re we know that we have your approval to use our logo in your cage it’s gonna cost you now to put your
your logo on these fighters in our cage when and then on the side note what they would do
is they would go to them and say hey if you pay us directly you don’t even have to sponsor those
Fighters we’ll just put your name Inside the Cage we’ll put you on the canvas we’ll put you on the the padding on the side
inside the cage you’re gonna be there for every fight not just one that’s what the UFC was doing they got
all the contact information and they went around the fighters and went right to their sponsors and hit
them up directly for cash and they and they were saying hey well you pay us 50 100 200 300 000 and we’ll put you inside
our inside our cage for a certain amount of shows maybe the one show whatever it was so they were they were skirting
around it and utilizing using all those contacts from the fighters to get themselves more money and for Uriah I
could probably see like and at the time those sponsors all just bounced out they’re like look there’s no money to be made now they’re done they’re like we
left I had friends that had MMA Brands they had they had clothing lines but what they did was they also created MMA
stuff they stopped doing the MMA stuff and just kept doing the skate stuff and the surf stuff and the you know and
whatever it is and all the other Jiu Jitsu stuff they did all that stuff but they didn’t create any more MMA stuff
they’re like yeah we’re good we’re done we’re not trying to chase those anymore and so URI got out probably right at the
right time he understood and I’m sure that there was like hey let me leave go get another manager go do whatever it is
there’s honestly there was no really probably no need for Benavides to even have a manager a lot of these guys if
you understand the sport if you understand what you’re getting yourself into you know how to negotiate a
contract there’s not much room that you can get out of them you’re not going to get much they have
their standard unless you until you get up to the top one and two and then the champion basically those guys there’s no
room for negotiation they have it’s almost like a it’s a it’s a graph they’ve got a graph and says okay this
is where you’re gonna be if you’re ranked in the top five but when it’s time to negotiate your contract okay now
we’re gonna put you here if you’re if it’s time to negotiate your contract and you’re number one you’re the number one seed getting into the title fight
then they they negotiate two contracts one is if you win the title and it’s how much more money you’re gonna get paid you know with pay-per-view points and
all this other stuff and there’s one if you lose in the title fight and we’re gonna put you here but we’re still gonna increase you a significant amount of
money so there’s different ways to negotiate these contracts just Fighters don’t seem to understand that all they
see and I’ve said this for the longest time all they see is
UFC being on TV I want to be famous and that is the biggest way of getting into
this and I’ve given credit to Eddie Alvarez the way he handles his career that guy
has made so much damn money people don’t even realize how much damn money he’s made he has crushed it crushed it he was
making money in Elite XC he’s making money in Bulldogs making money and all these in bellatories making money in all
these places you know and I gotta be honest man like he did it
right he did it right not having a loyalty to one promotion he did it right and he made the most amount of money
because of that and then when he went when he did go to the UFC they paid him a [ __ ] ton of money there too because he had already become Champion almost
everywhere he had went and then when they went to one one paid him
an astronomical amount of money I don’t want to say it but they paid he told me and I’m like geez
geez why’d you leave he’s like well you know I wanted uh everything for him it
was more about the travel every time he had to travel to overseas so far to fight every single time he’s like look
it’s Taxi man a taxi especially at my age as I’m getting older it’s not as fun as it was when I was 26 25. and I got I
understood I understood I never wanted to fight out on San Jose because I didn’t have to go anywhere it starts to tax on you
what else you got Dave um I think that’s really out on the management thing
um you know I get I guess now like um is there any advice like if somebody
like do you have advice I mean you kind of talked about contracts and all that but somebody doesn’t want to have a
manager they just want to keep all the money they can do you have any advice for kind of hand managing themselves
I mean look there’s a couple things I could the
number one thing is you guys and this is my number one thing for fighters in general period for
athletes not even just Fighters athletes um I have a buddy who plays
he plays in the NFL this guy is he just signed his second contract so he got out of his rookie
contract signed a second contract he’s so worried about certain women like a woman in his life
and I’m like the right one will come don’t get distracted with all this [ __ ] because you he hasn’t been playing very
well in the last two years but I’m surprised that he got a second contract and
and I’ve talked to him about it he’s hit me up and like hey man like you know I said you’ve got to find somebody
all these men that are successful the ones that have been you’ve noticed their their female stays out of the spotlight
that they’re not their female is not involved in the spotlight you know they’re there for their man and that’s
about it they’re not on social media you know hyping everything up they’re not out there taking selfie asses you know
they’re doing their thing they’re they’re who your success I believe is directly
related to what type of female you have next to you by your side and that that is one of the Stark thing
differences between like you see some of these some of these Fighters man just running around with an Instagram model and it’s
like why like so you have eye candy do you think it’s going to be there maybe maybe she’ll stick it out maybe she will but
every when I look at those type of situations I look at that’s not a good business decision because every time you
guys have an argument you’re wondering if someone obviously someone’s in her DMS hitting her up you know at any
moment she’ll turn around and and run off and she could I’m not saying she would but she could and that’s something
that plays in Fighters minds and within this sport this is the hurt business you need to make sure you are 100 focused on
what’s in front of you that’s it you can’t be focused on anything else and finding someone who is by your side and
you have no you have no concerns about whatsoever of doing anything else or
being you know out there at the club at night doing whatever it is I don’t care those are the things like that type of
thing is I think what it will drive Fighters success um in terms of contracts and
negotiations I’ve already laid that out that’s your management make sure is the one that you want negotiations come on
terms of your in terms of the percentage taken um negotiations come in terms of the
percentage taken also for sponsors and no they should never get any of the The Knockout bonus percentage bonus
submission bonus any of that stuff any of your performance bonuses they should get a percentage of your trainers should get a percentage of that and be very
weary of managers that one of their first things they say is Dana White is
my friend I hang out with him we go I go to his I go places with him or hang out
with his family and those are things to be very weary of because like the Sean was saying they are too close to the
promotion or too close to the promoter then you have to start wondering do they have your best interest at heart that’s
what you have to wonder so those are all things to keep an eye out now I’m not saying that those those managers that are hanging out at their
house or on their plane or doing all this that they’re not good matters I think a lot of them are fantastic managers okay I think a lot of them are
um and I know a lot of them personally I think that they are fantastic people and good managers but you just there’s new
managers coming in there’s bigger companies coming in that are trying to get part of this be cautious and careful
of those managers that say like I know him I done business with him I do business deals with him
um I mean you know I’ve I’ve sent him this many fighters be very cautious of all those things so um you know it’s got
to feel good for you as a fighter that’s really what it comes down to let me ask you this then
um this is a question that may be interesting it will go off of them is it good then because you know Sean
has a good relationship with the UFC right because he kind of plays ball right when it comes to the character on
screen and kind of helping promote the fight and all that right we just said Nick Diaz versus Jake Paul where Jake
was out publicly saying he was pissed that Nate wasn’t promoting the fight the way he maybe thought he would um is it good for Fighters then to hat
to to basically um close that bridge of the relationship with the promotion themselves and have
that relationship on their own and and kind of so that like you know Sean probably has a close enough relationship
with Dana where he can go straight to Dana and say hey hey you scratch my back I’ll scratch yours on whatever whatever
the situations is that something that you would say is a good is good to kind
of have as a fighter look I think it is good to have it as a fighter but I also think it can be bad like I said
the promoter at times and it’s a revolving door we’ve seen Fighters come in think they have a good relationship with Dana they do until you start if you
have a loss or two then it’s not as good of a relationship anymore your phone calls don’t get picked up as much
that’s the way this business works and so in terms of Sean look Sean he caught on
on the contender series it had nothing to do with Sean could Market it himself
Sean does a great job on his social media on his podcast he does a great job
of marketing himself having a manager a manager is not helping to Market him or it should be but isn’t you know I mean
he’s doing it all himself he’s I would say he’s like one step down from another YouTube star that’s really what Sean is
and so he’s doing it himself now if it wasn’t the other way around like you have Al Joe alja’s a fantastic fighter
amazing fighter but he’s not as marketable and this is what we mean by marketable as he’s not
as marketable as Sean so having a relationship with Dana yeah it’s great but when it comes to the
contract negotiations I’m not 100 sold you don’t need a manager I think you need someone who is not
close with them though somebody who can also draw the line and that’s where that’s what we’re talking about now as a
fighter you tend to think you are worth more than you really are and then the contract negotiations don’t ever really go anywhere you want this and they’re
like we ain’t doing that now you have to now as a fighter most Fighters get stuck in their way Sean seems like he’s got it
figured out like look okay if you’re not gonna do that then give me another option or this is my second option you
can’t go to the promotion and say hey this is um hey this is my uh this is
what I want take it or leave it they’ll be like screw you you need to come into come with them with another option look
this is what I’m looking for okay how how far are we from here and there’s like yeah we’re not we’re not close at
all okay well this is my second option okay and he comes in with a second backup contract and says hey this is
what I’m looking for but if I become Champion then it goes to this contract you need to have two and three options
when you approach them if you’re going to manage yourself you also have to understand where you’re at in the pecking order in terms of in
rankings if I’m ranked in his division which is the toughest division in the damn world okay right now in the in the
sport he needs to be thinking what he did was brilliant he got through his Contender series contract he fought all
the easy guys he could possibly fight made as much money as he possibly could in those shitty contracts that they’re
in coming out of the contender series and then once he signed a big lucrative contract okay I’ll fight Peter yarn
brilliant and he had nothing to lose had he lost to Peter yawn
he should have lost that’s what everyone would have said that’s the point of that’s the point of
negotiating a bigger deal in that second contract because if you lose if he would
have lost if he would have um if he was negotiate a shittier deal like say less money and they would have still put him
against Peter John you’re still fighting Killers even if it wasn’t Peter John it was somebody down the chain a little bit
more okay like one or two spots and at the time it was like morale being a little bit uh ranked lower if it was
going to be murab that’s a he’s a killer you’ve got to understand I need to get as much money as I possibly can for the
level and the quality of opponents that I’m fighting especially in the 135 pound division Sean O’Malley played it [ __ ]
Brilliance he’s getting paid really well he knows how marketable he is he doesn’t need a manager but I would always have
someone look over the contract always see if I missed something when I was when when you read it also just take a
look at it man just understand that everything is negotiable let’s have a don’t shut it down like yeah they’re
they’re [ __ ] me they’re screwing me they don’t they don’t respect me no that’s not how business is done they
respect you they want you Dana White it’s like clockwork every single time it comes to contract time the guy’s not a
draw he doesn’t he doesn’t put fans in the seat no one Tunes in to watch him he’s [ __ ] his last performance went
decision like it’s always that when it’s contract time it’s the same it’s the same thing in the NFL it’s the same
thing in the NBA they always say that this guy hasn’t won a championship or this guy hasn’t no man they’re doing
that to try to to get fans to think you’re not as good as you really are and to get make make you believe you’re not
as good as you really are Sean didn’t deal with that Sean understood I’m good I bring eyeballs to this uh Arena to
this stage I’m gonna get the best of the maximum amount I possibly can he’s got his head wrapped around him man I
appreciate it I actually admire looking at when I was listening to his con the way he he spoke
it let me know the way how calm he was and the way he was talking about it that he’s thought about this for a long time
and how to handle himself and he’s got that and I also like that he’s got this thing on the side with whoever was
managing before who I know but it’s you just he’s got this thing like no I’m gonna let it all come about and when the
time comes if I needed to use it I’ll utilize it and it’s brilliant he’s he’s holding
that in his back pocket most Fighters would spout off at any moment when things didn’t go their way and just
shoot these guys in the foot when there’s no need to just keep it between you and whoever and when the time comes
if you ever need to utilize it have it there in your back pocket to pull it out that’s it that’s the trump card okay I
got this man you’re a scumbag you know if that’s the way he feels so but anyways but hey this this is a great
little conversation Dave I’m glad I had you along for the ride buddy six seven years in the making my man
all right guys wait that’s gonna wrap you wrap us up for another another edition of Punk’s opinion and we will
see ya